Derelict signal just south of Derby truss bridge in New Haven Railroad Discussions Forum

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Derelict signal just south of Derby truss bridge

Author	Comment
Otto Vondrak	Derelict signal just south of Derby truss bridge	Lead	[-]
Posts: 129 (05/07/08 11:46:32) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tags : None I was out photographing trains on the Waterbury Branch two weeks ago, I came across an old derelict signal about an eighth of a mile south of the truss bridge at Derby. It's behind an auto body shop off Route 34. It's an unusual three-light design, like a traffic light. There are two heads. Anyone know what this signal was and what it was protecting? -otto-
pe lynch	Derby Signal	#1	[-]
Posts: 662 (05/07/08 13:13:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Otto - This was the northbound home signal for Derby Jct. on No. 2 track. It protected the end of the double track and the switch where the Maybrook and Waterbury routes split. It was controlled by the Maybrook CTC from 1961 until the mid-1980s until it was removed. Previously by S.S. B-253 Derby Jct.
Otto Vondrak		#2	[-]
Posts: 131 (05/07/08 14:12:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Ah ha! Thank you very much. -otto-
Noel Weaver		#3	[-]
Posts: 2747 (05/07/08 15:31:17) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	To add to what Pete stated, there were a lot of signals in that area at one time. Two tracks between Derby Jct. and Devon, two tracks west on the Maybrook and until the end of 1948, two tracks also to Waterbury. At that time there was a 24 hour tower at Derby Jct and there were three tracks over the Naugatuck River which is the bridge just east of the tower. The 1955 floods took out one of the three tracks over the Naugatuck River and when Derby Jct was shut down and the interlocking controlled from the dispatcher's office the second track over the bridge was also removed. At that time the interlocking was down to two switches one was a switch at the end of the double track and the other was a dividing switch between the Maybrook Line and the Waterbury Branch. The second track between Devon and Derby Jct. was taken out during the mid Conrail period and at that time the CTC was also discontinued on the Maybrook Line as was the remaining interlocked switches and signals at Derby Jct. Another sad case of what used to be. Noel Weaver
oddjob1947	Silent Sentinels	#4	[-]
Posts: 28 (05/08/08 03:23:21) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Interesting, thanks. Signals are a special interest. (If asked, I'll describe where the approach semaphore, North Bound, for Concord Junction still stands. (Or did, Last Year.) Blade long gone.) Is it my imagination or do 'several' 'ghost' semaphores still stand among the catenary towers on the New York Connecting? Or have they been cleaned out? Would it be fun/useful to start a list of such survivors? best dwp (dave pierson)
Tom Curtin	Derby Jct	#5	[-]
Posts: 1384 (05/08/08 04:13:34) Treasurer NHRHTA Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	A couple of additional items --- these do not contradict anything posted above but simply add more details. It is commonly believed that the third (easternmost) bridge at the junction was washed out in the 55 flood. Not really. Photos taken after the waters receded show all three bridges still there. Apparently the center pier of the third bridge had been damaged and it made more sense to remove the bridge and reconfigure the junction than to repair the pier. My recollection is that the reconfiguration of the junction was finalized a few years after the Maybrook went to CTC (in March 1961). I believe for a while in the 60s two tracks continued to cross the Derby Jct. bridges --- one to the Maybrook and one to the Naugatuck. sometime around 1965 (the year is a guess) the configuration was changed. After that, double track from Devon went to single before reaching the bridge, and only one bridge remained in use. The second bridge remained and in fact remains today. The junction switch between the Maybrook and Naugatuck was installed on the north (compass north) side of the bridge, and the east leg of the wye was actually moved and reconstructed to allow this to happen. Last Edited By: Tom Curtin 05/08/08 04:16:23. Edited 1 times.
Noel Weaver		#6	[-]
Posts: 2748 (05/08/08 12:57:15) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Tom, I agree, the framework remained but the track and ties were removed. The exact dates are not with me as to when the other changes took place but I think it was with the CTC on the Maybrook Line. I think it was before the summer of 1964 but just exactly when, I do not know at this point, maybe some research will refresh me but not today. Noel Weaver
mredden	Concord Junction signal	#7	[-]
Posts: 34 (05/09/08 07:06:34) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	oddjob1947 wrote: (If asked, I'll describe where the approach semaphore, North Bound, for Concord Junction still stands. (Or did, Last Year.) Blade long gone.) So, I'm asking.... Mike Redden
Tom Curtin	Derby	#8	[-]
Posts: 1387 (05/09/08 09:31:14) Treasurer NHRHTA Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Noel Weaver wrote: Tom, I agree, the framework remained but the track and ties were removed. The exact dates are not with me as to when the other changes took place but I think it was with the CTC on the Maybrook Line. I think it was before the summer of 1964 but just exactly when, I do not know at this point, maybe some research will refresh me but not today. I donn't remember exactly when the junction was reconfigured either. "Before summer of 1964" is very credible. I defintely recall it was not done the same time as the CTC was activiated on the Maybrook, i.e., March 1961.
oddjob1947	South/East of Concord Junction	#9	[-]
Posts: 29 (05/12/08 04:28:47) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	(at the risk of seeming grumpy, please use courtesy if visiting.) If local, bicycle is ideal. (Thats how i first found it...8)>>) (This stretch may get rail trailed. or not.) Delayed response as i wanted to check current conditions. Recommend (in this day and age) google maps, or similar. Locate Old Marlboro Rd Southerly from Concord. Locate Williams St (about 1/2 M S of Harrington Ave.) The branch crossed Williams, roughly paralleling Old Marlboro. Just Before the Williams/Old Marlboro junction, on Right/West, is small parking area for 'Old Rifle Range' trail. Recommended. Walk along Old Marlboro to Williams. Left onto Williams. Right onto old RoW. Walk about 1/4 mi South (ish). Cross driveway to Town Water Building. (Why not drive in, park? Its posted NO PARKING outside. I opt to respect that...) Keep going perhaps 100 ft, signal on left/east, facing south(ish). Pix improbable: much growth of trees. (yesss: I took a couple. Somewhere, have old ones.) (Years back, i knew enough signaling to just go looking, The mating approach signal, for SB traffic (from Lowell) was adjacent Rt 2: mast remains, mechanism gone.) May wish to go to Concord Junction, etc. Much changed, in 30 years, diamond preserved, adjacent to active RoW. best dwp (dave pierson)
Noel Weaver		#10	[-]
Posts: 2751 (05/12/08 08:31:22) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Just curious, what does this have to do with Derby Junction? Noel Weaver
oddjob1947		#11	[-]
Posts: 30 (05/13/08 04:55:02) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	...what does it have to do with... 1) Its another Derelict Signal. 2) I was asked, here, for a specific location. this could, reasonably, be another thread. best dwp (dave pierson)
Noel Weaver		#12	[-]
Posts: 2752 (05/13/08 06:27:56) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Maybe just make it former signals. The territory between Derby Junction and Devon was ABS with wayside signals and double track. The second track was pulled up some years ago and the signals were taken out of service at that time. When I rode the line a few years ago, most of the old signals were still in place but I don't know about today. On this line most of them were color light signals. I wonder if any of the former signals are still in place on the Maybrook Line anywhere. For a number of years there was one on the abandoned portion where the NYS Thruway (I-87) crossed the Maybrook Line on an overhead bridge between Highland and Maybrook. It could easily be seen from the highway when crossing the bridge even after the track was pulled up. I think this signal is gone today though. Noel Weaver
TomNelligan		#13	[-]
Posts: 180 (05/13/08 14:08:01) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	I haven't looked recently, but up until a couple years ago at least the Naugatuck Valley line distant signal for Derby Junction was still standing, just south of the trestle in Ansonia. It may have fallen down or been removed by now. Also, regarding the reconfiguration of the trackage at Derby Junction, my memory squares with that of Tom Curtin that it was 1963/64 or so, definitely post-CTC, but I don't have an exact date either.
nhrr246512	Derby Relocation	#14	[-]
Posts: 357 (05/13/08 16:08:28) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	On 10/28/63 the Trustees petitioned the U. S. District Court for authority to replace two timber trestles at Derby, the deterioration of which was such that they posed threats of interference with service on the lines between Maybrook, N. Y. and Waterbury, Connecticut. The Trustees believed that by relocating a section of track, they could replace the two old timber trestles with one ballast deck reinforced concrete trestle. Estimated cost $190,000.00 Court ordered 11/15/63.
Noel Weaver		#15	[-]
Posts: 2754 (05/13/08 20:16:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	The two timber trestles mentioned here were at the Waterbury Route East and Berkshire Junction Route West of the bridge. They led into the two remaining tracks over the Naugatuck River Bridge, one for each line. When the new trestle construction was done, the two tracks led into the same concrete approach to the above bridge which resulted in just one track over the Naugatuck River where up until the 1955 floods, there were three tracks. Incidentally, Cedar Hill - Maybrook freight trains changed directions twice in this process. The direction from New Haven to Devon was west, Devon to Derby Junction was east and Derby Junction to Berkshire Junction was again west. This also happened at Berkshire Junction where they ran south to Danbury and then again west from Danbury to Maybrook/Campbell Hall. I trust you all got that and understand that. Noel Weaver
zz4	Derelict signal	#16	[-]
Posts: 148 (08/14/08 16:57:57) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	Derelict signal ?? I was by that area a few days ago and I thought I saw 3 of them. Hot day to walk so maybe I'm delusional. At least there are more than one. #1-can't riders on Metro North see them ?? Otherwise there is a nice 'NO TRESPASSING' sign or signs in rt 34 area. Kind of hard to walk the area and bypassing that and all kinds of people watching. --and knowing a Metro North train goes by every so and so.... There's room to walk on sides of track BUT-- Curious. There's property with some older vehicles on it (active property) and some old oil? storage tanks rusting? Was there once a track to them ? As to the Orange line did that not go up from almost the bridge ?? I snooped the area a couple decades ago and the Orange line was somewhat obvious and traveled through some old sand/gravel operations right after leaving the present row. I can't even imagine that now. All I see is a steep hill with rt 34 on top of it. OR did I not walk far enough southbound ?? Some of the Orange line was findable a couple decades ago in this area but they probably built condos or ?? on the land up the hill. grrrr got out of there when I saw some orange rail truck hanging around around the bridge.... Maybe it's just instinct but don't want any fines at this time.
zz4		#17	[-]
Posts: 149 (08/14/08 17:01:10) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	grrr I don't think I walked far enough... There might even be entry from the cemetery on rt 34---if the land is not all built over....
DBrion	Signal ay Derby Junction	#18	[-]
Posts: 224 (08/14/08 18:07:26) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	In reading this thread, the early post by Peter Lynch (05/07/08) reminded me of some rail-walking I did at near Derby Junction back in the '80s, except that I was north (RR west?) of the Naugatuck truss by the Housatonic three-span truss bridge. I recall talking to a gentleman who was working on a signal that (IF MEMORY SERVES) was somewhere in between these 2 bridges on either the Maybrook line or just east of the wye. It was located geographically south of the track, facing east. I forget the fellow's name, but he told me he was a signal maintainer and that he was the brother of Charlie Grabert. How time flys!
Noel Weaver		#19	[-]
Posts: 2893 (08/14/08 22:32:23) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	This is from memory so be governed accordingly. Timetable direction on the Naugy was east and west with eastbound trains going from Devon. On the Maybrook Line trains headed from Derby Junction to Berkshire Junction were westbound. Eastbound from Devon there was a color light home signal on track 2 at Derby Junction and the distant signal for this home signal was located near the west end of Turkey Brook Yard. For trains from Waterbury there was an automatic signal west of the Ansonia station which governed the approach to the home signal at Derby Junction which governed moves through the interlocking. West of the interlocking there was a fairly sharp curve on track 1 which had an automatic signal. On the Maybrook line the first signal west of Derby Junction was the approach to Botsford which was somewhat east of the spring switch for the siding. Eastbound on the Maybrook Line the approach signal to Derby Junction was west of all of the crossings in Shelton and governed the approach to the home signal at Derby Junction. Late in the New Haven era there was a turnout where track 2 turned into existing track 1 which crossed the one remaining bridge structure over the Naugatuck River where a power switch separated the Naugy and the Maybrook Lines. At this time these were only two power switches which remained at Derby Junction. This was the layout that continued into the Penn Central and Conrail periods. I believe the CTC and the signals were removed in 1979, I have the bulletin here somewhere when this took place. In the days when there were still two tracks over the Naugatuck River there was a double crossover at Derby Junction where two single track lines became a double track line enroute from Derby Junction to Devon. Prior to the August, 1955 flood both the Naugy and the Maybrook Line were double track all through this area with the Naugy becomming single track at a point a little over 1/2 mile east of Ansonia Station. At that time there was a three track bridge over the Naugatuck River with power switches on both sides of the bridge and the wye was still in use for trains enroute to/from Maybrook - Waterbury - Hartford. Noel Weaver
zz4	--------------------------	#20	[-]
Posts: 150 (08/15/08 12:10:13) Reply Quote More My Recent Posts	It might seem I injected something from 'outer space' but exact area of the 'signal of discussion' is where the Orange line starting going up the hills. http://picasaweb.google.com/canaanmtn/ANSONIA

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Derelict signal just south of Derby truss bridge

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